Not Letting Go

Joseph Longo and Sofia Camargo on We’re Not Done Yet

by Anne-Katrin Titze

Joseph Longo with Sofia Camargo on the We’re Not Done Yet set watching Barbara Sukowa’s performance on the monitor
Joseph Longo with Sofia Camargo on the We’re Not Done Yet set watching Barbara Sukowa’s performance on the monitor

In the first instalment on We’re Not Done Yet (a highlight of the Sundance Film Festival), co-directors Sofia Camargo and Joseph Longo, who is also the short film’s star along with Barbara Sukowa, are joined by 99 Records founder Ed Bahlman, the producer of Glenn Branca The Ascension (99-001 LP, 1981) to discuss the sound design. Joseph’s father, Robert Longo, did the cover artwork for the landmark album.

Joseph Longo with Sofia Camargo, Ed Bahlman and Anne-Katrin Titze on Mike Leigh’s Meantime “I find especially his early films have this kind of playful whimsical aspect to the score.”
Joseph Longo with Sofia Camargo, Ed Bahlman and Anne-Katrin Titze on Mike Leigh’s Meantime “I find especially his early films have this kind of playful whimsical aspect to the score.”

At the shore a woman in a cosy cardigan dives up into the frame as though she just emerged out of the sea. From a distance a man approaches, who turns out to be her son, Alex, his dyed hair and stumbling gait making him seem like an old man at first. This is a film about serpentine parent and child dynamics, which are played here by the splendid real-life mother/son duo of Barbara Sukowa and Joseph Longo, who also wrote the script and edited We’re Not Done Yet.

In well-timed waves of emotional turmoil we watch the two of them spend some off-season time at their vacation home when deep-seated jealousies arise and persistent longings come to the surface. Why is his mother cutting out photos of the two of them when he was a little boy? Who is at fault when a confrontation with the neighbours (Lauren Norvelle and Doron JéPaul) gets out of hand over the holding of their baby? What makes jovial local contractor Doug (Danny Mastrogiorgio) such a menace and bitter threat? Really cold chocolate, yoga, a slapstick interlude, and an abandonment on the road expose feelings as old as time, ever shifting, and as personally relevant as ever.

From New York City, Joseph Longo and from San Francisco Sofia Camargo joined us on Zoom for an in-depth conversation on We’re Not Done Yet.

Anne-Katrin Titze: Hello Sofia! How are you?

Sofia Camargo: Hello! I'm good. I'm in San Francisco. Joseph should be here very soon. I was just texting him, he's in New York.

Joseph Longo: Hello! How's it going?

AKT: Very well. Okay, all right. So We’re not done yet. The “we” is really interesting in the title. It's not one person. It is definitely from both sides. Joseph, you wrote the script. Was this always the title?

JL: Yeah, it actually was the title. I think I came up with the title before writing the script. And the script had changed not a lot. But it changed over the course of writing, like fundamental ideas. But it always was the title.

AKT: Sophia, how did you get involved? How did the co-directing come about?

SC: So Joseph and I met when we were in film school at NYU. We were both doing the grad program for film and since the first year we started making movies together, we were put into the same team of filmmakers, and since then we just became really close friends. And we understood really quickly that we were both interested in stories about family, and that we were particularly obsessed with our mothers. So they kept coming up in both of our films, and I think we started joking about it and talking about family more and more, and our friendship developed.

Barbara Sukowa as Bettina in We're Not Done Yet
Barbara Sukowa as Bettina in We're Not Done Yet

So when Joseph wrote this, he shared that with me, and I was really excited because it felt like a very personal script, and very vulnerable and different and more mature than other things he had written before, so I immediately felt really attracted to the project, just as a friend and as a reader. As we kept talking about it,

Joseph first told me he wanted me to be involved. And then, later on, when he realised he really wanted to act in the movie, and because he was going to act with Barbara, he wanted to be very careful and focused on the acting. He asked me if I could direct it with him. I was incredibly excited because of the opportunity to work with Barbara, just the idea of directing them together. They're very funny and fun to be around, and I really like the script. So the idea was very exciting since the beginning.

AKT: I suppose there was never any other person in the role of the mother than your mother, Joseph?

JL: Definitely not in the role of the mother. I actually had just spoken with my mom. And I remember, and I didn't remember this, but I did initially, actually tell her, look, if I don't think I can pull this off, I do have a backup actor for it. But I think once the writing was at a place where I felt comfortable to share it, I got pretty confident in the fact that me and her were both going to do it together, but definitely there was no doubt ever that I wanted her to play the mother.

AKT: You have a great slapstick moment when you fall off that bench thing, that barrier. That was maybe your homage to film history? To silent movies, a little bit of Buster Keaton?

JL: As a subconscious homage. That's like one of my favourite moments of the film. It was the last shot. And last take that we did of the entire shoot. Sofia and I had worked this thing, we follow what the script said, where I walk down, I sit, and then I keep walking on. The last take we had a little bit of film left, and Sofia was like: Just surprise me! And I was like: Huh! What could I do? It was a great direction, though, because it gave me complete freedom to do what I wanted with not telling me what to do. But I was like, what would that be?

Alex (Joseph Longo) with his mother Bettina (Barbara Sukowa) practicing yoga
Alex (Joseph Longo) with his mother Bettina (Barbara Sukowa) practicing yoga

And then that moment happened! It's great, actually, too, because a car drove by, a non film car, not one of ours. And I think they thought I actually fell over. So I hear these people from the car laughing. I get up. Then I hear the crew laughing, and at one point I broke. We cut right before that. But it was definitely one of the highlights of the film, because it's also the last last last thing we shot.

SC: Yeah, I think it's interesting you mentioned that because I do think there's something Chaplinesque about you, like Joseph is a very amazing dancer. He's very theatrical and funny with his body, and quite intelligent at using his body for expression purposes. So I do think that's very on point.

AKT: Another scene that is physically very interesting is the confrontation with the neighbours. During the baby conversation we don't know what's going to happen next at all. Very interesting dynamics! Can you talk a little bit about this scene?

JL: I can talk about it from a writing standpoint, and maybe Sofia can talk about it from the directing standpoint, but I knew that I wanted to have something that each character in a way was in the right, and that you kind of understood each person's point of view. My character is embarrassed. The woman next door is protective of her baby, her husband's protective of her and her baby.

My mom is just trying to be friendly, and then she gets offended. And so it's like everybody has their own real, true point of view. I think you could make an argument for each one, or at least it is a bit of an absurd situation. But my hope or my attempt was to make an argument to see each person's point of view. So I guess it kind of started there.

SC: And I would say that in regards to the directing or the way we shoot it, we wanted to give it a lot of dynamism. We wanted this scene to feel like a lot was happening at the same time. Because of the way you film, you have to think about the way you're going to compress time for things to move fast.

Alex (Joseph Longo) on his bed
Alex (Joseph Longo) on his bed

So I think that we had that in mind, and we wanted to give that scene a lot of dynamism to elevate the drama. And specifically how things escalate very quickly. So the way we shot it, we start on mediums, and we get closer as the scene progresses. We were trying to create that crescendo for the drama of the scene.

AKT: What about the costumes for Alex, those totally ratty Brooklyn Surfer T-shirts? They work like an affront against the mother. The same as leaving the room a mess, like a little child acting up in his costume.

SC: Exactly!

JL: Those shirts are actually my shirts.

AKT: Oh!?

JL: I don’t, I never wear, I don't wear the Brooklyn Surfer one. That's actually funny. That's a company a very close family friend made. Then the other two shirts were like these sleeveless cutoffs that my dad gave me, that he used to play basketball in, like in the Eighties. So they're kind of like the shirts that I wear around the house. And they're exactly what you said! They are.

SC: And I think we talked about this, we wanted to create some contrast between who he is and the colours he wears, and the way he carries himself, and the harmony and the colour palette of the house she's created for herself. So he, aesthetically, is already a disruption to her life. We wanted to create that contrast in both colour and style. He's always wearing things with graphics. And we were trying to create that contrast and opposition between the two of them.

AKT: You talked, both of you, about dealing with the issue of mothers. The trope of Mothers, the adoption idea, and the idea of stealing a baby also has something very akin to fairy tales and folktales in general. There are many tales about an old couple wishing for a child, and then they get a Bamboo Child or a Snow Maiden. There is the Japanese tale of the Peach Boy. There is Rumpelstiltskin, in the German tale who says, I want your baby! So there's a folktale element as well. And you start the film with Barbara coming up from below the frame in the very beginning, as if out of the sea.

The neighbours played by Lauren Norvelle and Doron JéPaul
The neighbours played by Lauren Norvelle and Doron JéPaul

JL: We intended everything you just said! No, but I will say, though I feel like those kind of cultural folktale things do seep into your subconscious. And so yeah, it's so weird because I wrote the actual script, the first draft of it in like a day or two, and I really don't know where the idea came from. I don't know, it was a lot of like me trying to understand what was going on emotionally between my mom and me actually at the time. And then how could I put that into some type of heightened drama.

I think a lot of it had to do with my inability at that time to let go of my mother. And this is a very strange way of showing that it's like actually controlling your mother and telling what she can and can't do because of the fact that you can't let go of her. I mean, I wonder, I really don't know where it came from, but I feel like a lot of those kind of things do just subconsciously seep in. It's interesting bringing up German folklore, because I'm also trying to wonder if there were things that my mom read when I was younger. But I can't remember anything off the top of my head.

AKT: It makes so much sense. Because that's why those tales survived for centuries, because they seep in. We don't even know. And then we have these tropes, and they're just there from the oral tradition and we don't even realise it. Sofia, you had a comment?

SC: I was going to say, it is very mysterious that you came up with her wanting a new baby. And yeah, I think that's a very good question, and I have it too.

JL: Yeah, because it's also really the angle that I took. It was not about, oh, this woman wants to have a baby. It was like what would really crush me. What would crush that character if he saw all of a sudden his mom's about to put all of her energy now into this new baby? She's raised this child. And now she doesn't need to parent him anymore. And so I think it was more of like, what's the threat on the child rather than the desire of the mother. Of course, then you go into the desire for the mother, but it starts about more of a threat against a child.

99 Records - Glenn Branca The Ascension produced and mastered by Ed Bahlman, cover artwork by Robert Longo
99 Records - Glenn Branca The Ascension produced and mastered by Ed Bahlman, cover artwork by Robert Longo Photo: Anne Katrin Titze

AKT: That makes a lot of sense, because you also have another scene taken from every child's worst nightmare, the one with Doug, the local contractor, sitting on the couch. I think, no matter what age, you do not want your parent sit with Doug, the contractor, and have that conversation.

JL: That's true. Yeah, I think also, it's funny, because I mean, that's never happened with my mom and I. But it's funny, because she loves chocolate, and I then had found a way how to put chocolate into the film, and the most sensual moment of the film, is her giving chocolate to Doug in front of me. And, you know, I turn into like a 10-year-old kid in that moment.

AKT: You turn all of us into 10-year-old kids at that moment in the audience, everybody relates.

JL: Yeah!

SC: I think that's true that you wrote and portrayed a kid's nightmares, the adoption, the boyfriend. We grow up scared of that happening, right?

JL: Yeah, without totally knowing it, too. It was more like, how can I confront myself and the emotions that I'm going through. Well, these would be some of the things, I guess.

AKT: And then you are abandoned on the road! Not even Doug is offering you a ride when she drives away. You walk! That's Hansel and Gretel, all alone.

JL: Yeah! Well, my mom did once leave me on the side of the road.

SC: My mom did, too. I remember we both shared this with each other when we were making the film, and we were like, good, we were raised the same way.

AKT: The chocolate you mentioned - your sound design is really great, effective chocolate cracking. Also your choice of music is very interesting, with what sounds like a zither. I have someone here who actually worked, Joseph, with your father [Robert Longo] on the cover of an album for Glenn Branca. Ed Bahlman of 99 Records, would like to say hi.

Ed Bahlman: Hello!

JL: Hello, my dad talks about Branca a lot. That's amazing, very cool.

EB: I'll show you the cover. [Ed holds it up]

JL: Oh, my God! But that's like 1982, ’83!

EB: 1981.

JL: Wow, amazing. That's unbelievable. How cool, how cool!

EB: I founded 99 Records. You know the label at all? Liquid Liquid, ESG, Bush Tetras. Too Many Creeps.

JL: Yes, maybe I would know some of these by listening. My brother is the musician in the family. I'm sure he knows, Viktor.

Joseph Longo with his co-star Barbara Sukowa on the set of We’re Not Done Yet
Joseph Longo with his co-star Barbara Sukowa on the set of We’re Not Done Yet

EB: I met your father first in the late Seventies, when he was a guitar player.

JL: Wow! He wanted to be a punk rock musician first.

EB: Yes he did. Yeah, Branca was already doing it, and Rhys Chatham and other people, so he went full force into the art.

JL: Well, I know about the Rhys Chatham, the 200 guitars whole deal. Yeah, very very cool.

EB: In fact, I was at the World Trade Center before 9/11, where I saw Glenn’s Symphony No. 13 (Hallucination City) for 100 Guitars.

JL: I was supposed to see him in Central Park. Oh, God, the timeline! I don't know if it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but it was raining so they had to stop the show because of all the electric guitars.

EB: But I wanted to congratulate both of you on the sound design. Too many films nowadays overdo it with music, with noise. They have no restraint on what they're doing, and your film was perfect as far as I'm concerned.

JL: Thank you. Yeah, I think that's something Sofia and I had intended early on. I'm a huge fan of Mike Leigh. And I find especially his early films have this kind of playful whimsical aspect to the score. And so there's this interview with Jarvis Cocker on Criterion that I saw and it's Mike Leigh and Jarvis Cocker talking about Meantime, specifically the music in it. And he had mentioned Eastern European and the tap piano and Romanian music. And so I started looking into that. And then I found this and sent it to Sofia. And she was like, yeah, this is great.

EB: It is great, the excerpts you chose, too, and when you place them is terrific. Also the one lyrical song, when that's put in, which is also the chocolate scene. Slow Hand; I know the lyrics and, boy, that's really sneaky.

Sundance Film Festival 2025
Sundance Film Festival 2025

JL: That was actually borderline kind of our [consulting] editor, Sara Shaw she had helped. She had floated the idea of this time of music. So then we went away for a second, created like a 20 play song list or whatever, and then that one with the lyrics just worked so perfect, especially just the idea of the chocolate. “I want a slow hand,” all of that. Which was almost like the opposite, though, with an easy touch.

EB: Your character’s touch was so heavy handed in that scene: I don't expect to see you here, or whatever the line was, in the morning.

JL: Yeah, exactly.

EB: Absolutely perfect also is the sports broadcast. I think that we're hearing very muted all of that. That, too set a tone that you're trying to be in your own world and their noise, their conversation took you out of your room. It's almost like you said, tone it down. That's perfection in sound design.

JL: Well, every young kid goes to sports to escape.

EB: Is Kid Running your production company?

JL: Yeah, it's the company I just started.

EB: Because I expected you to start running after you were abandoned.

JL: I had it in the script. Actually there was a thing with running, but I think that we thought the Chaplin moment was far more effective, embarrassing for that character.

EB: No, it works really well, and also say hello to Robert from me.

JL: Yes, awesome.

Robert Longo installation American Bridge Project on the Hunter College Sky Bridges (2017)
Robert Longo installation American Bridge Project on the Hunter College Sky Bridges (2017) Photo: Anne Katrin Titze

AKT: Well, thank you for this. And toi, toi, toi for Sundance!

JL: Thank you.

SC: Thank you so much. This was very, very fun.

EB: Are you both going? And Barbara too?

JL: Yep.

EB: Send some photos from Sundance!

JL: Yes, we will, thank you.

Coming up - Barbara Sukowa on We’re Not Done Yet, Noah Baumbach’s White Noise, and the upcoming Leibniz, directed by Edgar Reitz and Anatol Schuster.

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